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14 responses

5 01 2008
Sangue bom

OMG don’t try summing up 400 years of capoeira, you don’t even know if 400 years is true. Chicken-sellers dance? Who made you believe that?
Furthermore..
It’s been logically reasoned that capoeira didn’t come from Africa.
And Regional doesn’t pronounce like that in portuguese.

And these are the mistakes I saw not bothering to read for the millioneth time the same things all over again.

Not talking, educating.

5 01 2008
Sangue bom

oh yeah, forgot to mention I liked the last design better 😉

i know, only bitchin’

5 01 2008
Joaninha

Hi. Wow. Okay.

I was kidding about actually summing up 400 years, that was just an off-hand way of saying I wrote a general page on capoeira. Isn’t it true though? Most sources say capoeira was developed in the 16th century…so 1500s…so 2000 minus 1500-something is 400-something.

As for the chicken-sellers, I said it was their past-time, not their dance, but maybe “chicken-sellers” wasn’t the clearest way of putting it. It really is a theory though that slaves who brought chickens in “capoeiras” to the market to sell played capoeira or something that became it while hanging around. That’s on pages 16-17 of Mestre Acordeon’s book, Capoeira: A Brazilian Art Form.

I don’t believe capoeira was transported whole from Africa into Brazil, but the N’golo dance or its influence is another theory out there, especially among angola groups. Also, please keep in mind I didn’t put forth any of these “origins” as facts, but specifically called them opinions. That means some people believe them and some don’t, and that they may or may not be true. The N’golo theory is cited in Mestre Acordeon’s book as well, on p. 16.

Hmm, I thought I correctly represented how I usually hear “regional” pronounced, but maybe not. What do you think I should change it to?

And of course you’ve read all that a million times before, you’re a capoeirista! That page was for people who happen to stumble across my blog who don’t know what capoeira is. However, I wouldn’t mind if you actually did read it and pointed out more mistakes. I’d rather fix them now than have them up there permanently wrong.

5 01 2008
Joaninha

I liked the last layout too, but this one works pretty well and it let me customize the header, which the last one didn’t.

5 01 2008
faisca

I love the new look! The art on the top is great, your friend has skills.

As for your quick history of capoeira, I think it does the job. There will always be things that people can nitpick, but you covered all the basics, and you did say that the origin stories are opinions so that’s good. And regarding Regional, that’s how I pronounce it (hey-jional) and that’s how I’ve always heard it pronounced. Though, I’m not Brazilian and I don’t speak Portuguese so I could be wrong (though the Brazilians I know probably aren’t).

All in all, I love the new look. (And I like how you stole my banner ideas, jk =P) Good job.

5 01 2008
Sangue bom

Can’t call Acordeon liar, can I 😛

Most sources romantisize capoeira, to popularize it. Which sells best, to say capoeira was born out of the yearning for freedom or from the unwillingness to get a straight job which resulted in spare time that led to the formation of gangs to steal and kill? We know both can be true, but would you have joined capoeira knowing its earliest history only as violent?

The earliest they mention is Zumbi, but there’s now evidence that he was a capoeirista. He was real, but that he was a capoeirista is most likely romantisism.

The earliest to dance capoeira were the chicken, they developed it to get out of their cages 😀

Acordeon’s book is over 20 years old. That says it.

I bet brazilians themselves pronounce regional differently, you might know people who originate from Rio or Recife, I know mostly from Brasilia. According to the written rules for pronunciation and to what I’ve picked up by hearing it goes more like “hejionaul” with ul in the end meaning L something between U and L.

I miss the arrows in layout.

6 01 2008
Joaninha

Thanks, Faisca! I’ll make sure to tell my friend that. =D And yeah, I guess they’re just things that people can always argue about–it’s not like capoeira mestres themselves have done any better at coming to a concensus!

Haha, hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 😉

6 01 2008
Joaninha

Sangue bom–Lol! Hmm, I know:

ll
ll======> “8 Responses to “Mandingueira: New and Improved!”

(Did that help? :P)

Hm, I see your point about the romanticization. I don’t think capoeira came out of gangs that were formed to steal and kill (I think it could have been used by such gangs though). Although, it’s not all spin as I’m pretty sure one of Nestor Capoeira’s books talks about how capoeira was also known as vadiacao, a term associated with bums and vagrants. I actually had no idea what capoeira was when I joined it, but from talking to people, it seems like they join because they like what they see it is today, not because of what it was or wasn’t when it first came to be.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue with Zumbi…he lived during the 17th century so are you saying you think capoeira is older than 400 years or younger than 400 years? Also, I’m confused because first you say there’s evidence that he was a capoeirista, then you say you think he was just romanticized to be one…?

Chickens, yeah, and hollowed out eggshells were the first cabacas! XD

Well, I wasn’t trying to prove the truth of the origin stories, just the legitimacy of me putting them up there, so even if Mestre Acordeon’s book is 20 years old, the fact that he cited those versions (and cited other scholars who were themselves citing others who supported those versions) gives them enough validity to be mentioned, since nothing has been completely disproved, and I don’t think a lot of people believe capoeira came whole from Africa to begin with.

Umm…so if Brazilians themselves pronounce “regional” differently, are you saying how I wrote it could be right after all? =P Come to think of it, one of my teachers does have roots in Recife, haha.

6 01 2008
Sangue bom

There’s no contradiction in what I’m saying with Zumbi. He’s the earliest guy they always throw at you as a capoeirista, like the fact that they say it, is hard enough evidence in itself. He was a freedom fighter and that’s how they associate him with capoeira. Capoeira can as well be 200 years old.

It would be better to mention opinions and facts that have been proved or disproved by more contemporary authors/scholars. Even Acordeon has come a long way from N’golo and chicken-sellers.

You should not omit the u/l thingy at the end of regional. Don’t know how you’d write that, but the endings for some types of words are that make portuguese harder to master, but the more rich.

I don’t think, my dear, I have read 😉

6 01 2008
Joaninha

Alright…all of that may possibly maybe be true (have to say, it would help if you backed up your opinions with outside sources though 😉 ), but I think for the sake of closure I’ll have to agree with Faisca, which is to say that for the purposes of that page, which is to give people who have never heard of capoeira before a general clue, I feel okay leaving it the way it is. Plus, I did say that I was talking about general/popular things thought about capoeira, and the things I wrote were the most general/popular/well-known versions of things. I will change the “regional” though, but to Faisca’s version, since mine probably stresses the “a” vowel sound too much, and the target audience of that page will probably not know how to understand your version 😛 And I’ve already changed a few other tiny details here and there to reflect our discussion. Thanks!

7 01 2008
Sangue bom

So you are saying you’d rather have all these educated and non-mainstream thoughts and facts on feminism and female mestres on your site and give just a popular version of what capoeira is about?

Fair enough.

7 01 2008
Joaninha

Hmm, do you think I’m sacrificing accuracy and truth for convenience, on my capoeira page? Or that I’m somehow doing the feminism part at the *expense* of the capoeira part? Just want to be sure before I spend time writing a response…

8 01 2008
Sangue bom

I love what you are doing.

Haven’t had time to read it all yet.

8 01 2008
Joaninha

Haha, well, I’m glad to hear that. (Unless, of course, you’re being sarcastic. In which case, I don’t get it.) 😛

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