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	<title>Comments on: Looking at the &#8220;Capoeira&#8221; in &#8220;Capoeira Regional&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/</link>
	<description>(noun, feminine): capoeira player who is skilled, experienced, intelligent, powerful, dangerous, and not to be underestimated</description>
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		<title>By: Pipoca</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pipoca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shayna...that was a profound explanation.  I&#039;m stealing it and showing that to my friends for sure.  Sorry, you don&#039;t have a choice!  :P  lol]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shayna&#8230;that was a profound explanation.  I&#8217;m stealing it and showing that to my friends for sure.  Sorry, you don&#8217;t have a choice!  <img src='http://s2.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />   lol</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joaninha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yuuup, got it :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yuuup, got it <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: angoleiro</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[angoleiro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hey joaninha,

there is thinking and there is thinking. in the beginning, people think too much about their movements while playing capoeira. that&#039;s when they not only have no idea about the game and have no capacity to think about it, but this thinking too much about it is also hindering your body to find its own way to do a certain movement. thinking about the game as advanced capoeirista is completely different. your body is already doing those movements, so you use your remaining mental energies to try to lead the game. this is when malicia comes in again:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey joaninha,</p>
<p>there is thinking and there is thinking. in the beginning, people think too much about their movements while playing capoeira. that&#8217;s when they not only have no idea about the game and have no capacity to think about it, but this thinking too much about it is also hindering your body to find its own way to do a certain movement. thinking about the game as advanced capoeirista is completely different. your body is already doing those movements, so you use your remaining mental energies to try to lead the game. this is when malicia comes in again:)</p>
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		<title>By: xixarro</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xixarro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great comparison Shayna - thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comparison Shayna &#8211; thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joaninha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, what happened in those two games that made them so upsetting for you?

That makes even more sense when you put it that way...I hear the phrase &quot;thinking too much&quot; a lot in class!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, what happened in those two games that made them so upsetting for you?</p>
<p>That makes even more sense when you put it that way&#8230;I hear the phrase &#8220;thinking too much&#8221; a lot in class!</p>
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		<title>By: Shayna</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shayna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to credit M. Manoel for helping it to clearly crystallize in my mind. We played two games at the FICA conference this past weekend, which were so frustrating and humiliating that afterwards I was close to tears. Later I asked him what I could have done better and all he would say was, &quot;You&#039;re still playing with your body, and not enough with your mind.&quot;

My immediate thought was &quot;But I WAS playing with my mind. During the game I was constantly thinking about what moves to try and what strategy to adopt, since my &#039;normal&#039; ones were failing.&quot;  But I think he was alluding to a deeper level of mind game. So, reflecting on that was what really brought out the fine points in the analogy...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to credit M. Manoel for helping it to clearly crystallize in my mind. We played two games at the FICA conference this past weekend, which were so frustrating and humiliating that afterwards I was close to tears. Later I asked him what I could have done better and all he would say was, &#8220;You&#8217;re still playing with your body, and not enough with your mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>My immediate thought was &#8220;But I WAS playing with my mind. During the game I was constantly thinking about what moves to try and what strategy to adopt, since my &#8216;normal&#8217; ones were failing.&#8221;  But I think he was alluding to a deeper level of mind game. So, reflecting on that was what really brought out the fine points in the analogy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joaninha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 06:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Marisol, thanks for the link!  I think it&#039;s the same one that Renata posted earlier, too :)

Xixarro and Shayna, yes I think you guys are right and I think I tried to &quot;conclude&quot; the issue a little too hastily!  Also, Shayna, that is such an amazingly good analogy and explanation, it makes me almost want to be wrong about more things purely for all the extra enlightenment I would get out of your corrections! =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Marisol, thanks for the link!  I think it&#8217;s the same one that Renata posted earlier, too <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Xixarro and Shayna, yes I think you guys are right and I think I tried to &#8220;conclude&#8221; the issue a little too hastily!  Also, Shayna, that is such an amazingly good analogy and explanation, it makes me almost want to be wrong about more things purely for all the extra enlightenment I would get out of your corrections! =)</p>
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		<title>By: Shayna</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shayna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Xixarro on this one - and I think it&#039;s something you&#039;ll understand more as you get more time in capoeira, Joaninha. Through my own experience and those of others, I know that players definitely pass through stages of perception and philosophizing in the roda.

The metaphor I&#039;ve used to describe it is this (forgive me if I&#039;ve already written it on this site before):

1. Capoeira is a language, and when you begin learning, your first priority is just pronouncing the words right (i.e. your goal is to do a meia lua without falling over).

2. Once you know a few words, then you begin using them in BASIC dialogue - which is reactionary. Your response depends on what the other person does. It&#039;s analogous to having a normal verbal conversation with someone. This stage lasts for years as your dialogue - your responses - get more and more developed. There is also progress made in the stage 1 area, as the technique of your individual movements improves through much repetition. At this stage, your goal might be to do a meia lua at the right time in the game, and to read the other player so that they are surprised by your meia lua.

3. When you&#039;ve reached the point where you can &quot;converse&quot; in the roda WITHOUT thinking about the words/phrases themselves (i.e. they are in your muscle memory, no longer actively in your mind), then your mental abilities are freed up so that you can do things like create situations to set up a particular move. It&#039;s analogous to talking with someone and thinking, &quot;I&#039;m going to try to make the other person say the word &#039;apple.&#039;&quot; At this stage, your goal might be to not JUST read but rather actually CONTROL the other player so that eventually you put a meia lua out there and you don&#039;t kick them but instead they have no option except to run themselves into your foot. I&#039;m betting this stage takes even longer than the previous one.

4. Finally, you reach a point where you can control not just the other player&#039;s movements, but also their emotions, the whole scope of the game, and even the audience. This is akin to having a complex conversation with someone and actually steering the whole conversation around to a particular point, or winning them over to your point of view through the use of subtle persuasive techniques as opposed to outright argumentation. It&#039;s like if you have a great idea that your boss is resistant to, but through lots of careful talking and guiding of the reasoning process, you get your boss to implement the idea because he/she &quot;came up with&quot; this great solution themselves.

These stages aren&#039;t exclusive and there is some overlap, but as you can see, the amount of philosophizing increases with each one. By the time you reach stage 4 (and I am only guessing, because after 7 years of capoeira I am just *beginning* to move from stage 2 to 3), you are playing almost exclusively with your mind - and on a higher level than just thinking a few moves ahead.

Make sense...?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Xixarro on this one &#8211; and I think it&#8217;s something you&#8217;ll understand more as you get more time in capoeira, Joaninha. Through my own experience and those of others, I know that players definitely pass through stages of perception and philosophizing in the roda.</p>
<p>The metaphor I&#8217;ve used to describe it is this (forgive me if I&#8217;ve already written it on this site before):</p>
<p>1. Capoeira is a language, and when you begin learning, your first priority is just pronouncing the words right (i.e. your goal is to do a meia lua without falling over).</p>
<p>2. Once you know a few words, then you begin using them in BASIC dialogue &#8211; which is reactionary. Your response depends on what the other person does. It&#8217;s analogous to having a normal verbal conversation with someone. This stage lasts for years as your dialogue &#8211; your responses &#8211; get more and more developed. There is also progress made in the stage 1 area, as the technique of your individual movements improves through much repetition. At this stage, your goal might be to do a meia lua at the right time in the game, and to read the other player so that they are surprised by your meia lua.</p>
<p>3. When you&#8217;ve reached the point where you can &#8220;converse&#8221; in the roda WITHOUT thinking about the words/phrases themselves (i.e. they are in your muscle memory, no longer actively in your mind), then your mental abilities are freed up so that you can do things like create situations to set up a particular move. It&#8217;s analogous to talking with someone and thinking, &#8220;I&#8217;m going to try to make the other person say the word &#8216;apple.&#8217;&#8221; At this stage, your goal might be to not JUST read but rather actually CONTROL the other player so that eventually you put a meia lua out there and you don&#8217;t kick them but instead they have no option except to run themselves into your foot. I&#8217;m betting this stage takes even longer than the previous one.</p>
<p>4. Finally, you reach a point where you can control not just the other player&#8217;s movements, but also their emotions, the whole scope of the game, and even the audience. This is akin to having a complex conversation with someone and actually steering the whole conversation around to a particular point, or winning them over to your point of view through the use of subtle persuasive techniques as opposed to outright argumentation. It&#8217;s like if you have a great idea that your boss is resistant to, but through lots of careful talking and guiding of the reasoning process, you get your boss to implement the idea because he/she &#8220;came up with&#8221; this great solution themselves.</p>
<p>These stages aren&#8217;t exclusive and there is some overlap, but as you can see, the amount of philosophizing increases with each one. By the time you reach stage 4 (and I am only guessing, because after 7 years of capoeira I am just *beginning* to move from stage 2 to 3), you are playing almost exclusively with your mind &#8211; and on a higher level than just thinking a few moves ahead.</p>
<p>Make sense&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Marisol</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marisol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 09:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found this post extrememly interesting in relation to my interest about the nomadic nature of culture. Culture within itself is transcient; so coming to one single conclusion about this is difficult. 
There&#039;s a cool shirt that depicts the evolution of capoeria I found from Casa di Culture: http://casadiculture.bigcartel.com/product/%C3%9Cber-retro-gray-yellow]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this post extrememly interesting in relation to my interest about the nomadic nature of culture. Culture within itself is transcient; so coming to one single conclusion about this is difficult.<br />
There&#8217;s a cool shirt that depicts the evolution of capoeria I found from Casa di Culture: <a href="http://casadiculture.bigcartel.com/product/%C3%9Cber-retro-gray-yellow" rel="nofollow">http://casadiculture.bigcartel.com/product/%C3%9Cber-retro-gray-yellow</a></p>
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		<title>By: xixarro</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2008/08/05/looking-at-the-capoeira-in-capoeira-regional/#comment-1293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[xixarro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/?p=251#comment-1293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not agree Joaninha. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s just a matter of semantics. I do philosophize during a game, not just playing based on a philosophy.

e.g. Capoeira has a distinct philosophy about respect amongst players, different graduations and visitors. When I start a game with someone I have already checked for myself what the appropriate thing to is. But when someone buys the game I need to do it during a game.

Also I have to check wheater the other one is playing according that same philosophy or not. Does he/she not, I have to evaluate how to react.

So by giving you this one simple example I hope you now do see that there IS philosophy during a game and that it is not just a matter of trying to outsmart the other one.

And the more you get to know about capoeira, the more you should philosophise DURING each game you play. Most things you&#039;ll do automatic once you know it, but still you should always consciously reflect on what you&#039;re doing, when you&#039;re doing it. If not, and I repeat my question, why would you philosophise at all?

Xixarro]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not agree Joaninha. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s just a matter of semantics. I do philosophize during a game, not just playing based on a philosophy.</p>
<p>e.g. Capoeira has a distinct philosophy about respect amongst players, different graduations and visitors. When I start a game with someone I have already checked for myself what the appropriate thing to is. But when someone buys the game I need to do it during a game.</p>
<p>Also I have to check wheater the other one is playing according that same philosophy or not. Does he/she not, I have to evaluate how to react.</p>
<p>So by giving you this one simple example I hope you now do see that there IS philosophy during a game and that it is not just a matter of trying to outsmart the other one.</p>
<p>And the more you get to know about capoeira, the more you should philosophise DURING each game you play. Most things you&#8217;ll do automatic once you know it, but still you should always consciously reflect on what you&#8217;re doing, when you&#8217;re doing it. If not, and I repeat my question, why would you philosophise at all?</p>
<p>Xixarro</p>
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