best,
e.

lúna, I deeply appreciate your comment. While I am not Brazilian, I do see what you are saying about the cultural differences between the US and Brazil, as well as the cultural melding that has taken place within Brazil. (and how it includes people from many nations and cultures: Japanese, Lebanese, Syrians, European Jewish immigrants – as well as Native people and people of African and Portuguese descent – and Germans and Italians and…. )

As for drumming being communication with ancestors, may I respectfully address that: in some cases, and in some cultures, it is; in others, it is not, and is “secular.” Case in point: most all djembe/dunun music from Mali, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Cote d’Ivoire and parts of Senegal. This is very complex stuff; I can’t even begin to give a digest of it – nor is it especially relevant to capoeira, candomble, or Brazilian culture.

Africa is incredibly complex, in terms of the thousands of cultures and languages and peoples found on its soil. And it is not static; African cultures (like all others) are in the constant process of change and “hybridization.”

I do realize that many African-derived religions practiced in the West (vodun, candomble, Santeria, Shango, Palo, macumba etc.) come from various parts of West and Central Africa. But – in Cuba, in Puerto Rico, in Brazil, in the English-speaking Caribbean – the elements that came from Africa actually changed and evolved due to the fact that those who were forcibly torn from Africa were from differing cultures and national, linguistic, etc. backgrounds. People had to band together as best they could in order to survive; to thrive, even, in spite of what they had to endure.

And (dare i say it?) Native and European elements slipped into many religious practices as well.

I do not believe there is a single “pure” African source for the complexity and diversity of diasporic cultures, any more than there is some such thing for the descendants of European immigrants (or for South and East Asians, or Middle Eastern peoples, etc. who came to the Western hemisphere).

kimbundeira, while I am thinking over what you have said, I also feel that you are undermining your arguments by oversimplifying what they are about in the 1st place. This isn’t such a (forgive me) black and white issue as you seem to be making it. (I am referring to the color of ink on paper here, not to human skin color of any shade.)

Please realize that there are people of all colors and backgrounds who might want to understand what it is really like to walk in your shoes. And that not all of us are about “entitlement.” There’s plenty we white people don’t understand – that I, as a white woman, don’t understand – but please, give us a chance to learn!

Maybe I’m too idealistic, but… I hope and pray that Dr. Martin Luther King’s dreams for this country (US) will be realized in time. Which means that I need to make places at my table for you, and yours, and many, many others… and that, whether you want to or not, you might need to start making places at your table for me and mine – and NOT because of some weird idea of white privilege. Breaking bread with someone can be the opening to knowing their heart.

I don’t want to steal anything from anyone – but I see that so much that has come from Africa is so beautiful, and so uplifting. May I be allowed to participate, to join in the music, and in the dance? May I learn from you? (These are serious questions; I mean them with all my heart.)

I will never be a capoeirista, but I do love to watch the game being played. It’s one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

P.S.: While I see a fair amount in the comments above about poverty and discrimination against black Brazilians, i haven’t seen anything about those of primarily European-Native descent who also live in impossible conditions and who have an equally difficult time getting out of grinding poverty… If you are not familiar with any of this, I would strongly recommend watching Andrucha Waddington’s movie Eu Tu Eles, which is set in the arid backlands of the Brazilian northeast.

Brazil is more than black and white, and certainly more than black and white opposing one another! So, for that matter, is the US (I think).

e.

All races and creeds have been repressed along history, and all have had their share of struggle and huniliation. As you seem to categorise people in “black and white”, whites enslaved whites & blacks: blacks enslaved whites… and blacks enslaved and oppressed other blacks long before Africa was colonised by the white oppressor. Slavery has always been about exploitation, not racism. In the quilombos, back in the days when capoeira emerged, there were not just blacks, but also huge numbers of indigenous people and whites running from the law, not to mention numerous mercenaries of all colours. And there were slaves within the quilombos, where blacks exploited blacks.

I am a “mixed-race” Brazilian who lived for over 20 years both in Rio and in the “black” North. Brazilians don’t really see people as black or white, firstly because we are all physically so different, but, most crucially, because we all equally share one Brazilian heritage that encompasses African, European and indigenous culture. So, first of all, if we must really talk about discrimination, there are Brazilians and non-brazilians . Then, if we must talk about resentment (rather than discrimination and prejudice) Brazilians see it more as “rich” and “poor”. Interestingly, the middle class are rarely the subject of resentment because they encompass such a huge range of statuses and skin colours. So if there are grudges, they are against the ostentacious upper classes, “os ricos”.

In capoeira, “black” / working class practitioners are aware of, and proud of, the fact that middle-class and / or “white” people enjoy and practise capoeira with such passion. They will also be appreciative of good “white” or foreign players. Some highly-regarded middle-class “white” mestres like Suassuna or Camisa are a testament to this. They would have never reached this status had such resentment existed.

Now to the sexism: yes, it exists. Not just in capoeira, and not just in Brazil. I would argue that sexism is more pronounced in Africa than in many other parts of the world

I also would like to add that in Brazil, African culture is an intrinsic part of us, regardless of skin colour. Every day it’s in our food, our music, our literature, our art, our religion, the air that we breathe. We are proud of our heritage! A white, blonde Brazilian dancing samba de roda is absolutely normal in Brazil. No-one would bat an eyelid… why? because she’s Brazilian. Most importantly… she dances LIKE a Brazilian! Extrapolate this to capoeira….

In Brazil, and in Europe where I now live, capoeira is about enjoyment, togetherness, responding to the call of the berimbau. People of different backgrounds, creeds, cultures, colours, values, ages come together to celebrate the survival and continuation of this incredible art. Definitely not about sweeping generalisations about sexism, white females or racial / cultural grudges. Like every sport, and every art, it’s about competence, expression, enjoyment, and about what you can offer to the game, whether you are male or female, a beginner or an advanced player. Thankfully! And if there are people whose behaviour we don’t agree with, that’s life, not just capoeira!

First of all, damn… This is a VERY heavy and interesting discussion. Respect to everyone who posted! I’d like just to put a few things into context. I am training as a Social Anthropologist and strongly believe that context is the key to understanding.

It helps to remember that Brazil has a VERY different culture to US/Canada/Europe/Australia/NZ. In Western countries, yes, it is inappropriate for a teacher to “come on” to a student. In Rio de Janeiro (I don’t have much experience of other places) when an attractive girl starts training, its pretty much expected that the teacher will hit on her. If she rejects him, he might try once or twice more, but after that she gets treated normally. Now I’m not saying that this is good or bad, or that it will never change, just that it is THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW.

Also, Brazil is a flirtatious and touchy feely place. They laugh at me saying “you foreigners are so cold!” Sometimes what is taken to be “inappropriate” in one place is “appropriate” in another and vice versa. This of course doesn’t apply to all cases.

As far as aggression with female capoeiristas, I have found that a majority of the female Brazilian Capoeiristas (Regional) are MORE aggressive than the guys. Outside of Brazil they are usually less aggressive. In part I think this is because in Rio de Janeiro Capoeira is seen as a contact fighting art, while outside of Brazil it is seen as NON-contact, meaning that different types of people are attracted to it in the different places. Also, a stronger or more graduated Capoeirista playing heavy with someone less strong or graduated is seen as cowardly, and is very highly frowned upon here. As a result, most guys do play lighter with women. Alot of the women, however, don’t want this and as a result play more aggressively to “make” the guy play harder with them by showing that they are strong and skilled.

Another thing to remember is that Brazil and in turn Capoeira (it is intrinsicly Brazilian) is at this point in time very male orientated. It is changing slowly, but it is that way. Percentages of female Capoeiristas are rising, but are still quite low. I’m pretty sure the solution is more female masters (mestras), teachers (professoras) and instructors (instrutoras).

And on an unrelated note, someone mentioned the Regional=white middle class thing, but Mestre Bimba taught poor blacks as well, and Mestre Pastinha taught rich whites. You have a mixture of rich blacks, poor blacks, rich whites and poor whites (and every combination in between) in both styles in Brazil. I personally have found that outside of Brazil that there is a correlation between social class and style. Angoleiros are more likely to be middleclassed; working class people are more likely to be attracted to Regional, although alot of the Regional players are also middle class.

I think the basic gist of what I wrote was that the dynamics between mestres and women capoeiristas in the roda and outside the roda are different, but that just because we still respect them after doing potentially questionable things inside the roda, doesn’t mean we have to also still respect them after they do definitely questionable things outside the roda.

As for “underlying feelings”, Coral’s story just brought out so glaringly all the things that are so wrong with this kind of thing, one of the most infuriating being how perpetrators can just get away with it so easily, partially because the “victims” often silence themselves, without the guy even having to do anything.

@Coral

I planned on replying to this topic right after I read it but I just couldn’t put in words what I was feeling about your story. Now I’ve had some time to think about it and phrase my thoughts. And still the best thing I can come up with: “WTF!?”.
This just to state how disgusting, dispicable, etc.. I think this kind of behaviour is.

Being a male capoeirista I don’t encounter these kind of things so I won’t say I know how you feel, cause I don’t. Just know that I despise this kind of behaviour and these kind of people should never gain a ‘leading’ status. On the other hand, can you know beforehand that someone is going to misuse his status like this?

@Joaninha

I had to read your post a couple times before I understood everything and I still feel that I’m missing part of the underlying feelings and thoughts.
But the things I did understand I agree with.

PS: I might not write here a lot, but I do read it

As for other issues you raised, firstly, I really appreciated how you recognized you should adjust your playing to the person’s level, not your gender, despite your mestre’s dubious “advice”!!

Secondly, your third paragraph actually kind of disturbed me. I hadn’t thought about the women in a capoeira group being used/provided as “entertainment” in that way before, and that kind of thing doesn’t really happen in my group, thank god. But what you said about “grabbing, adoring, feeding” (I have to admit I feel kind of on the verge of throwing up right about now; what are we, trained house pets?) one night and “kicking you to the berimbau” the next (but when you’re already down?!!? That could be another discussion topic altogether!), and how it’s okay because there are rules for different situations, being outside and inside the roda…that doesn’t seem to work for me.

To me, that just sounds like, “We’re allowed to harrass you sexually outside of the roda, and harrass you physically inside the roda.” Though what happens in the roda isn’t actually harrassment or anything like that at all (barring your specific case), so no, you can’t actually compare the two situations at all. You’re right in that what happens inside the roda is fine, since it’s capoeira after all, and they shouldn’t be “playing soft” with someone just because she’s female, right? And also right that we should respect them as teachers/senior capoeiristas, if they don’t behave in a way that betrays that respect.

But just because those things are all okay, doesn’t necessarily make the other thing okay as well. I don’t think they’re related or comparable, unless, again, they are beating you up in the roda BECAUSE you rejected them, refused to be treated as a sex object, etc. etc. So yes, you can’t compare the two situations, but that in no way means one situation is acceptable just because the other one is.
Thank you for your kind words about my blog. I’m incredibly glad that you felt you could speak out on it, and I really hope you find more venues to about that, as well. The fact that incidents like that are silenced and guys like that are let off the hook probably every day just infuriates me; I don’t know how I’d react if I were in your place.

First, my group is different that many other groups that I have encountered. While we are slowly gaining more female students, I was ‘raised’ by playing with men thus I can hold a ‘rough’ game. I was a little shocked when I started playing with other groups and was told by my Mestre that I needed to play softer with girls. I was a little shocked (I didn’t consider myself aggressive), I somehow felt inappropriate AND felt a little masculine! Instead, I tried to become more conscious of a players game and level, despite their gender. This was one interesting lesson.

The next was accepting the notion of our relationships with Mestres inside the roda and outside. I struggled, and still do, with how female capoeiristas are somehow suppose to entertain our Mestres and visiting Mestres come Batizado time. Come social time, we are being grabbed, danced with, fed, and adored. Sometimes it is all in good fun and sometimes boundaries are seriously crossed. The next day the same man will take you down in a roda and kick you to the berimbau with a frightening sternness, yet we should still feel respectful?? Well, yes we should, male or female because they are our teachers and we are students playing in their roda! I have learned that you can’t compare these two situations because the roda is the roda and has its own rules and hierarchy, and outside of that the rules can be lifted. I feel as a woman, if you don’t see this distinction Capoeira can become a very confusing and emotional place, perhaps even causing one to drop out.

I found peace in the above notion until a recent event I attended. I was a visitor and the group’s Contra Mestre is young, and well, hot. In the past this Mestre came on to me very strongly, which at first seemed flattering. However, it quickly became perversely disturbing to me, and I asked him to please not talk to me anymore, that I felt he disrespected me as a person. He became defensive, but that was that…or so I thought. During the event I played him. His first movement busted my lip and caused it to bleed. I felt it was an accident, and stayed in the roda for another game. During this game he took me down and full force kicked me in the head. I freaked out because I felt this was a personal attack that no one else could see. As I tried to get out the roda he stopped the game and lectured me in front of the entire group about how I need to respect my master and to go and sit down. I left the roda feeling like a shamed child. After he gave a lecture and told the group that I had tried to play too aggressively with him and that was my mistake. I knew I had not. I am very aware of my level and would never play a Mestre like that.

For me, this connects directly to your topic. Should someone like this be promoted?? Perhaps he is still learning as well to be a good teacher. In my view, and how my Mestres have taught me, he should have maintained control. Let’s say I did play him aggressively, he should have kept control of the situation without playing with such roughness, especially since I am not a high cord. However, philosophies of proper instruction are all over the board and vary from Mestre to Mestre, I know that. But this was a very subtle situation that could not be interpreted by everyone.

I have not been able to share this since our groups are so tightly connected and have often wondered how other female capoeiristas feel about their experiences. I am surprised there is not more literature about it. I am not a naive woman and I accept that these attitudes are out there, as they are in life. I continue to practice and absolutely love Capoeira.

Thank you for your postings

I think Onça’s comment was more a sarcastic reaction to the views expressed here, and I have to say I’ve seen some condescension and dripping sarcasm all around previous to his comment…which doesn’t necessarily justify it on everyone’s part, of course, but just for the record.