I didn’t mean to make my 2nd posting that controversial ! Anyway I think we both agree that the stalking is hideous, and I know it will vanish sooner or later because it’s not an intrinsic trait of the Moroccan society. Just today a largely read Moroccan newspaper published a series of articles dedicated to this topic, they titled it “Sexual Harassment : A Dangerous Game Between Men and Women”-my translation. Here is the link for those who can read Arabic http://70.84.17.149/?secid=32
The roots cause of this violence in disguise lies probably in the violence endured by the man himself from the system (political, economical, social problems), and which he transmits to the weaker (the woman in this case). This is why the formula “don’t do this or else!” won’t work at all here. The well being of the Moroccan woman is tightly linked to that of the Moroccan man and vice versa.

Ciao.

I just wanted to say that I completely understand your feelings on this and don’t believe that Morocco’s harassment situation should be handled gently or with an air of cultural relativism.

You’re right – you weren’t treated this way because you’re a tourist (though that doesn’t exactly help the situation). I lived in Morocco as a foreigner for two years, learned the language, learned the subtleties of how to dress appropriately without sacrificing my principles (read: not wearing a headscarf) and none of it mattered one bit – I was still harassed, each day, by the same men.

Incidentally, so were my Moroccan female friends (who do not wear headscarves either).

I was also a teacher in Morocco, and frequently used this subject as a topic of conversation – and my students, mostly teenagers, agree that this is a problem that needs to be solved.

Traditionally, Moroccan men and women have little contact before marriage – in urban areas, however, this is changing – women are being seen more and more in cafes and even nightclubs. Hopefully, as men and women are allowed more freedom of contact (and this appears to be happening a lot with the next generation, even in more subtle ways), the way men in Morocco treat women will change.

Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, hold on a minute. Do you know what you’re saying here?

First of all, if you can give me links to any of these “studies” done that link male suicide to feminism, I would really appreciate it so I can see for myself. For now, even though I have not seen evidence for either way, I really cannot bring myself to believe that is true, just because of how deep and destructive the implications of that would be. You’re implying, especially with “vote for the former”, that feminism is actually harmful, giving anyone who wants one a “reason” to shut down the movement—when all we want is equality. Obviously there is room for men to say “hello” on their street, but as for “in their own way”—what way is that? Groping? Calling out lewd things? Grabbing a woman walking by? Doing or saying otherwise inappropriate things that make women feel unsafe or uncomfortable everywhere they go?

You are basically arguing the counterpoint I only semi-seriously suggested in my post, that rape attacks (in your case, suicides) are possibly a “result” of “repression” of men. Like in my post, my rebuttal is that this whole line of reasoning is based on the idea that “men can’t help themselves”, which as has been established over and over and over again, is not true.

Again, by “voting for the former”, you are saying that we just have to take it, that that’s how things are, and at least “it’s better than the alternative”—because you constructed an alternative of mass shootings and suicides, not simple equality. Can you see how destructive that is to women? Leaving alone the fact that there’s no valid way to prove feminism begets male suicide (that’d be like trying to prove anti-racism begets Caucasian suicide) (and the mass shooting may or may not have happened anyway, we can’t know, and happened because he hated women, so it actually seems to support my point because an atmosphere like the one you voted for discourages seeing women as equals/actual people), you are suggesting we just take it and leave things are they are because of one single incident that actually suggests we *can’t* leave things as they are, and something that is very, very, very hard to prove and as I mentioned, wouldn’t make sense because its implications are unthinkable?

You seem nice and I appreciate that you wrote your comment respectfully, so I hope mine didn’t seem like an attack on you. I was just a little shocked by some of what you said or its implications, so I really hope I was able to make it clear why, above!

Actually It does matter that Morocco in this regard is better than other places, and let me explain why. I have been living in Canada for quite long period of time, and I have noticed how women are very well treated and I’m glad that they are. Except in Canada we celebrate each year a sad event. In 1989, 14 young female students were shot dead by a young man because simply they were … women. This shocking story made many Canadians rethink the relationship between men and women. Many years later, the Canadian society is still suffering from high rates of male suicide, and many experts link this phenomenon to the effects of an agressive feminist movement in the society. Honestly between the model that leaves some room for the guys to say “hello” to girls in the streets in their own way, and a model that begets the canadian sad story, I vote for the former.

Ciao

Hi Karen, thank you for sharing…wow, that’s really awful. We mostly only experienced verbal harrassment, I can’t imagine what would’ve happened if they went further. And I think that would count as an “attack”, and you’re right, it’s not okay. Tell those people to read this post, the ones who say it’s “just the culture”! Or you could sic that man on them and see what they say then…

Ciao.

On vincentFiore: See blog post update!