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	<title>Comments on: Capoeirobics and the Female Chauvinist Pig: When Good Things Go Bad</title>
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	<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/</link>
	<description>(noun, feminine): capoeira player who is skilled, experienced, intelligent, powerful, dangerous, and not to be underestimated</description>
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		<title>By: Alicia</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-1721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alicia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-1721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi. Ok, so here is the woman who wrote the message coming to blog. I&#039;ve read what has been written here, about myself and the others who participated in this project. I have also read your opinions on the deeper ramifications of what was, to us, a very fun experience where the group of us went on a road trip to play some capoeira and came back feeling very beautiful. During that trip, I saw girls who had never thought of themselves as sensual become so. I saw a woman who had a baby six weeks before rediscover that part of her as well. Before all of you continue into the finer points of objectification, I suppose that I need to also ask you which of you find it objectifying and sexualizing for men to play capoeira with their shirts off? I have had men come up to me before and give me crap for wearing a half shirt while they stand there shirtless. I have also seen countless photos of men playing on the beach in their sungas. Hmmm, fair? Hardly. I find it funny how men, particularly Brazilian men, are very much focused on their physiques in this art--the strength, lines and deep physical fitness that does, or should, come along with intense training. Why should we be any different. Most women I know who have begun training have seen a wonderful change in their bodies, and that is a good thing. If they want to show that, what is the problem...that it makes someone who isn&#039;t in shape uncomfortable? That it makes the feminists upset? Well girls, sorry about that, but you are really just going to have to get over it. 

Frankly, I find it amusing that so much has been made of this calendar, and so many girls have screamed, &quot;objectification&quot;. You ask if we think it is ok that this makes it so we are ogled. Did you really think that we are not ogled already? Have you forgotten every batizado where Mestres are inappropriate with young white cords, or married men pick up on females? Or the ass grabbing that comes along with each cord? For me, this is a much bigger issue, but quite frankly, dressing in baggy clothes and pretending that I am not a beautiful woman is not going to solve that. The interesting thing to me also is that, to a woman, every person in this calendar has shown exemplary character, moral judgement and control (read, doesn&#039;t sleep with Mestres, upper cords, or participate in the disgusting almost incestual partner switching within the group that is so common) throughout their capoeira careers.

The point of my write up in combination with (what to you seems contradictory) photos of bikini-clad women playing capoeira is to underline the point that we are women. It was a bit of the tongue-in-cheek, and also a bit of the finger to the boys who do harass us. Do we also show our capoeira skills in other ways? Yes. Look up pregnant capoeira on YouTube. Both of us were in that calendar, and in this video we are playing at 7 and 5 months pregnant. These days, we attend rodas with toddlers in tow and help the lower cords avoid the pitfalls of groping Mestres and getting in shape. Being a woman is a kaleidescope of sides--sensual, strong, pregnant, the list goes on. This calendar was a slice of one side, never meant to be taken as a whole. But, we really weren&#039;t that concerned to overly clarify that for anyone. Especially the girls. We thought you all would get it. Oh well, back to the roda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. Ok, so here is the woman who wrote the message coming to blog. I&#8217;ve read what has been written here, about myself and the others who participated in this project. I have also read your opinions on the deeper ramifications of what was, to us, a very fun experience where the group of us went on a road trip to play some capoeira and came back feeling very beautiful. During that trip, I saw girls who had never thought of themselves as sensual become so. I saw a woman who had a baby six weeks before rediscover that part of her as well. Before all of you continue into the finer points of objectification, I suppose that I need to also ask you which of you find it objectifying and sexualizing for men to play capoeira with their shirts off? I have had men come up to me before and give me crap for wearing a half shirt while they stand there shirtless. I have also seen countless photos of men playing on the beach in their sungas. Hmmm, fair? Hardly. I find it funny how men, particularly Brazilian men, are very much focused on their physiques in this art&#8211;the strength, lines and deep physical fitness that does, or should, come along with intense training. Why should we be any different. Most women I know who have begun training have seen a wonderful change in their bodies, and that is a good thing. If they want to show that, what is the problem&#8230;that it makes someone who isn&#8217;t in shape uncomfortable? That it makes the feminists upset? Well girls, sorry about that, but you are really just going to have to get over it. </p>
<p>Frankly, I find it amusing that so much has been made of this calendar, and so many girls have screamed, &#8220;objectification&#8221;. You ask if we think it is ok that this makes it so we are ogled. Did you really think that we are not ogled already? Have you forgotten every batizado where Mestres are inappropriate with young white cords, or married men pick up on females? Or the ass grabbing that comes along with each cord? For me, this is a much bigger issue, but quite frankly, dressing in baggy clothes and pretending that I am not a beautiful woman is not going to solve that. The interesting thing to me also is that, to a woman, every person in this calendar has shown exemplary character, moral judgement and control (read, doesn&#8217;t sleep with Mestres, upper cords, or participate in the disgusting almost incestual partner switching within the group that is so common) throughout their capoeira careers.</p>
<p>The point of my write up in combination with (what to you seems contradictory) photos of bikini-clad women playing capoeira is to underline the point that we are women. It was a bit of the tongue-in-cheek, and also a bit of the finger to the boys who do harass us. Do we also show our capoeira skills in other ways? Yes. Look up pregnant capoeira on YouTube. Both of us were in that calendar, and in this video we are playing at 7 and 5 months pregnant. These days, we attend rodas with toddlers in tow and help the lower cords avoid the pitfalls of groping Mestres and getting in shape. Being a woman is a kaleidescope of sides&#8211;sensual, strong, pregnant, the list goes on. This calendar was a slice of one side, never meant to be taken as a whole. But, we really weren&#8217;t that concerned to overly clarify that for anyone. Especially the girls. We thought you all would get it. Oh well, back to the roda.</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joaninha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Soneca, 

Thanks so much for your comment (and I&#039;m sorry it took me so long to respond!).  It&#039;s definitely a valid question to ask whether we should hold participants at least partially, if not as, responsible as the people who are exploiting them.  The CEO of Playboy, for example, is actually currently a woman.  (Oh, the irony.)  

I&#039;ve also heard this issue come up in discussions about porn, for instance---i.e. aren&#039;t women in those videos choosing to do it?  The difference, of course, is that some of them most likely didn&#039;t have a choice, whereas that &quot;Bonecas de Capoeira&quot; calendar does seem like something pretty optional, to say the least.  

And yes, showing the &quot;strength&quot; and transcendence of women beyond gender barriers by doing something like this and calling themselves &quot;dolls&quot; does seem extremely contradictory and self-defeating.  I do like what the woman wrote though, although again, I could do without so much focus on What It Means To Be &quot;Feminine&quot;.  However, her write-up doesn&#039;t explain at all this calendar---if they purely wanted to show women&#039;s advancement in capoeira, sell DVDs of them playing in a roda!  And I think that partly answers the question of why it&#039;s &quot;wrong&quot; for her to show off in that manner; because there are many other, less exploitative and more effective ways of showing off her skill than taking sexy photos with a berimbau, in a bikini on a beach!  If she wants to show off her body, that&#039;s fine, but I think we can all agree that there are much better ways to show off how well you can play capoeira. :)

That&#039;s actually really shocking about the capoeira classes you&#039;ve visited!  I haven&#039;t ever heard anything like that in my classes...someone might refer to size or weight, but it&#039;ll always be in passing, while talking about a sequence, for example; they would never comment on the size/weight itself for the sake of it.  

And I say we have EVERY right to complain!  As long as &lt;i&gt;we&lt;/i&gt; are not the ones saying and acting like it&#039;s okay, why must we suffer for it and take responsiblity for the ones who are?  Just because someone in your capoeira group lets herself be ogled does not mean that the oglers can treat you that way too.  Not AT ALL.  To each her own, right? ;)  On that note, however, I also think we should be careful about extending the actions/decisions of the particular women who chose to do this calendar to &quot;women in capoeira&quot; in general.  I wouldn&#039;t say women in capoeira as a group put themselves out there at ALL, like the women in this calendar.  And as for women or girls who start training solely to &quot;look cute&quot; and &quot;check out the guys&quot;...I don&#039;t consider them &quot;women in capoeira&quot;!

But yes, returning to the calendar, everything about it except for possibly the write-up screams sexualization and objectification.  As for whether they&#039;re putting it out there that this is okay...well, I can&#039;t imagine that they&#039;d do anything like that &lt;i&gt;intentionally&lt;/i&gt;, but it&#039;s true that the mere existence of the calendar itself seems to suggest that.  Perhaps they just didn&#039;t think it through very far, or didn&#039;t consider any of the issues we are?  Maybe we should get one of them over onto this blog and ask her...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Soneca, </p>
<p>Thanks so much for your comment (and I&#8217;m sorry it took me so long to respond!).  It&#8217;s definitely a valid question to ask whether we should hold participants at least partially, if not as, responsible as the people who are exploiting them.  The CEO of Playboy, for example, is actually currently a woman.  (Oh, the irony.)  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also heard this issue come up in discussions about porn, for instance&#8212;i.e. aren&#8217;t women in those videos choosing to do it?  The difference, of course, is that some of them most likely didn&#8217;t have a choice, whereas that &#8220;Bonecas de Capoeira&#8221; calendar does seem like something pretty optional, to say the least.  </p>
<p>And yes, showing the &#8220;strength&#8221; and transcendence of women beyond gender barriers by doing something like this and calling themselves &#8220;dolls&#8221; does seem extremely contradictory and self-defeating.  I do like what the woman wrote though, although again, I could do without so much focus on What It Means To Be &#8220;Feminine&#8221;.  However, her write-up doesn&#8217;t explain at all this calendar&#8212;if they purely wanted to show women&#8217;s advancement in capoeira, sell DVDs of them playing in a roda!  And I think that partly answers the question of why it&#8217;s &#8220;wrong&#8221; for her to show off in that manner; because there are many other, less exploitative and more effective ways of showing off her skill than taking sexy photos with a berimbau, in a bikini on a beach!  If she wants to show off her body, that&#8217;s fine, but I think we can all agree that there are much better ways to show off how well you can play capoeira. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That&#8217;s actually really shocking about the capoeira classes you&#8217;ve visited!  I haven&#8217;t ever heard anything like that in my classes&#8230;someone might refer to size or weight, but it&#8217;ll always be in passing, while talking about a sequence, for example; they would never comment on the size/weight itself for the sake of it.  </p>
<p>And I say we have EVERY right to complain!  As long as <i>we</i> are not the ones saying and acting like it&#8217;s okay, why must we suffer for it and take responsiblity for the ones who are?  Just because someone in your capoeira group lets herself be ogled does not mean that the oglers can treat you that way too.  Not AT ALL.  To each her own, right? <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   On that note, however, I also think we should be careful about extending the actions/decisions of the particular women who chose to do this calendar to &#8220;women in capoeira&#8221; in general.  I wouldn&#8217;t say women in capoeira as a group put themselves out there at ALL, like the women in this calendar.  And as for women or girls who start training solely to &#8220;look cute&#8221; and &#8220;check out the guys&#8221;&#8230;I don&#8217;t consider them &#8220;women in capoeira&#8221;!</p>
<p>But yes, returning to the calendar, everything about it except for possibly the write-up screams sexualization and objectification.  As for whether they&#8217;re putting it out there that this is okay&#8230;well, I can&#8217;t imagine that they&#8217;d do anything like that <i>intentionally</i>, but it&#8217;s true that the mere existence of the calendar itself seems to suggest that.  Perhaps they just didn&#8217;t think it through very far, or didn&#8217;t consider any of the issues we are?  Maybe we should get one of them over onto this blog and ask her&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Soneca</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Soneca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is interesting for me to read this post and really turn it over in my mind.  A couple of months ago my friend showed me a &quot;Bonecas Da Capoeira&quot; calendar that he had bought (ranting and raving about what a pig he was rained down upon him immediately) and my initial reaction was disgust.  Here it was again, the sexualization of women in Capoeira, my mind was racing.  How would we be seen as fellow capoeiristas if we continually put ourselves in situations that objectify us?  I was really taken aback by it, the thought that girls willingly took this art and turned it into semi-porn made me sick.  Then I looked at the pictures.

Maybe it&#039;s because I&#039;m an artist, or maybe it&#039;s because I can appreciate beautiful girls, but I have to admit: the photography was beautiful, the shots were beautiful, the movements were beautiful.  These girls looked strong and powerful, they totally owned it.  But for them to show their inner strength and beauty- did they have to do it in their bikinis? Or call themselves Capoeira dolls? I was and still am very conflicted by this.  

After reading what one of the &quot;bonecas&quot; wrote I turned everything over in my mind again.  This girl wasn&#039;t a bimbo, she&#039;s very intelligent and funny, and talented. She&#039;s worked really hard to be where she is, to be at the level she&#039;s at, so why is it &quot;wrong&quot; for her to show it off in this manner?

&quot;This calendar is a celebration of the beauty and strength of the women of Capoeira--an art that allows us to play at an even level with men, but at the same time to retain our full feminine identity. And we are, unapologetically, women. We have our own unique strengths and energy that we add to each game, and it is a vital and complementary component of the men&#039;s participation. In an art form birthed from the challenges of inequality that forced a need for malicia, trickery and wit, Capoeira seems almost made for women. Who better to explore the finer points and hidden meanings behind such a visually stunning martial art form? In the last several years, both outside and within Brasil, the female presence in this art/sport is growing. We are becoming stronger in so many ways. And in the next several years, we will begin to see women leading more rodas, commanding more games and becoming a determining force in the direction that Capoeira is going to take. Enjoy.&quot;

I don&#039;t mean any disrespect to her by posting her words, or questioning her participation- to each his own.  But I have a right to question what her actions mean for women in Capoeira- are these girls putting out there that it is ok to be sexualized and objectified? In my class, and in other groups I&#039;ve visited, there have been comments made about the girls in the class.  For example, anytime someone looses or gains weight there are comments made, and the fact that you&#039;re &quot;supposed&quot; to be a certain size or look a certain way is enforced with these comments.  &quot;You&#039;re gaining weight, are you having personal problems?&quot;  Things such as this enfuriate me- but do I have a right to be mad or take offense, when girls purposely put themselves out there in a way that opens up criticism of their looks/physique?  If women in Capoeira are making it seem like it&#039;s ok to be looked at and judged by one&#039;s physique- do we have a right to complain?

Shayla comments the beauty/Capoeira competition and the Mestre who held it.  But should we be questioning him or the participants? There had to be some sort of interest displayed by the group, or the participants themselves that sparked the idea that he should host such a competition.  The fact that these girls agreed and happily partook in this is more of the question to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting for me to read this post and really turn it over in my mind.  A couple of months ago my friend showed me a &#8220;Bonecas Da Capoeira&#8221; calendar that he had bought (ranting and raving about what a pig he was rained down upon him immediately) and my initial reaction was disgust.  Here it was again, the sexualization of women in Capoeira, my mind was racing.  How would we be seen as fellow capoeiristas if we continually put ourselves in situations that objectify us?  I was really taken aback by it, the thought that girls willingly took this art and turned it into semi-porn made me sick.  Then I looked at the pictures.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m an artist, or maybe it&#8217;s because I can appreciate beautiful girls, but I have to admit: the photography was beautiful, the shots were beautiful, the movements were beautiful.  These girls looked strong and powerful, they totally owned it.  But for them to show their inner strength and beauty- did they have to do it in their bikinis? Or call themselves Capoeira dolls? I was and still am very conflicted by this.  </p>
<p>After reading what one of the &#8220;bonecas&#8221; wrote I turned everything over in my mind again.  This girl wasn&#8217;t a bimbo, she&#8217;s very intelligent and funny, and talented. She&#8217;s worked really hard to be where she is, to be at the level she&#8217;s at, so why is it &#8220;wrong&#8221; for her to show it off in this manner?</p>
<p>&#8220;This calendar is a celebration of the beauty and strength of the women of Capoeira&#8211;an art that allows us to play at an even level with men, but at the same time to retain our full feminine identity. And we are, unapologetically, women. We have our own unique strengths and energy that we add to each game, and it is a vital and complementary component of the men&#8217;s participation. In an art form birthed from the challenges of inequality that forced a need for malicia, trickery and wit, Capoeira seems almost made for women. Who better to explore the finer points and hidden meanings behind such a visually stunning martial art form? In the last several years, both outside and within Brasil, the female presence in this art/sport is growing. We are becoming stronger in so many ways. And in the next several years, we will begin to see women leading more rodas, commanding more games and becoming a determining force in the direction that Capoeira is going to take. Enjoy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean any disrespect to her by posting her words, or questioning her participation- to each his own.  But I have a right to question what her actions mean for women in Capoeira- are these girls putting out there that it is ok to be sexualized and objectified? In my class, and in other groups I&#8217;ve visited, there have been comments made about the girls in the class.  For example, anytime someone looses or gains weight there are comments made, and the fact that you&#8217;re &#8220;supposed&#8221; to be a certain size or look a certain way is enforced with these comments.  &#8220;You&#8217;re gaining weight, are you having personal problems?&#8221;  Things such as this enfuriate me- but do I have a right to be mad or take offense, when girls purposely put themselves out there in a way that opens up criticism of their looks/physique?  If women in Capoeira are making it seem like it&#8217;s ok to be looked at and judged by one&#8217;s physique- do we have a right to complain?</p>
<p>Shayla comments the beauty/Capoeira competition and the Mestre who held it.  But should we be questioning him or the participants? There had to be some sort of interest displayed by the group, or the participants themselves that sparked the idea that he should host such a competition.  The fact that these girls agreed and happily partook in this is more of the question to me.</p>
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		<title>By: GCAP and Capoeira Identity Politics &#171; Blue Snake Books</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GCAP and Capoeira Identity Politics &#171; Blue Snake Books]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] it is far from a perfect one), these people might be Moraes&#8217;s personal version of &#8220;female chauvinist pigs&#8220;, passively or actively complicit in their own oppression, however gradual or subtle it may [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it is far from a perfect one), these people might be Moraes&#8217;s personal version of &#8220;female chauvinist pigs&#8220;, passively or actively complicit in their own oppression, however gradual or subtle it may [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joaninha</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joaninha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-90</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like how he made it sound like we&#039;ve been lacking for judging people only by capoeira skill--how shallow of us!  It does make it better that it was unisex, but wouldn&#039;t do a lot for the self-esteem of people who lost!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how he made it sound like we&#8217;ve been lacking for judging people only by capoeira skill&#8211;how shallow of us!  It does make it better that it was unisex, but wouldn&#8217;t do a lot for the self-esteem of people who lost!</p>
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		<title>By: Shayna</title>
		<link>http://mandingueira.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shayna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mandingueira.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/capoeirobics-and-the-female-chauvinist-pig-when-good-things-go-bad/#comment-87</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There was one mestre in Brazil who held a &quot;Top Model Capoeira&quot; competition. He wanted to have a contest where &quot;the participants are not judged only by the quality of their capoeira, but also by their physical beauty.&quot; The competition was for both men and women, but STILL...

...and they say we foreigners are ruining capoeira :-p]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was one mestre in Brazil who held a &#8220;Top Model Capoeira&#8221; competition. He wanted to have a contest where &#8220;the participants are not judged only by the quality of their capoeira, but also by their physical beauty.&#8221; The competition was for both men and women, but STILL&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;and they say we foreigners are ruining capoeira :-p</p>
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